Adam Savage On Topic Of Recasting

Usurper

Veteran Hunter
As Klwl says its a different entity.

The topic is on recasting in the prop community, not taking it off on some tangent to try to make a point that because it happens else where then why not here.
Sure zero tolerance will not stop it, but those who chose to walk that line will not be welcomed here or the rpf or tdh ( see Arts guidelines about a ban being applied to all the sites under "movie prop sites llc" )
And no I don't own any pirate films I prefer to have all the extras and goodies that bluray provides.

Using me as a example is fine by the way, it's a risk anyone who sells takes, but I ain't in this for the money or I'd sell my silicone p1 an stuff wherever I could.
And that's the difference when it boils down to it, recasters are purely after a fast buck.

Now I'm off to enjoy the holidays. Good will to all ( apart from recasters and their supporters, I hope what little balls they have fall off ) :)
 

Usurper

Veteran Hunter
How is supporting the original sculptures like Glendon said elitist?

Omg lol you just can't explain to some people, maybe as you are new you should look around some more, we support all budgets/builds/ideas and dreams, whether you make it all yourself or want to buy.
The elitist comment is ridiculous lol.

Right time to start drinking the Christmas spirit. :)
 

Guan Thwei

Elite Hunter
I would like to apologize as well for the topic at hand was very surprised on the many replies I know it is a heated subject among us just as Lee had stated on the other forums that we are now apart of. I thought  Adam Savage bringing up the topic of Recasting on a YouTube channel because apparently he loves collecting props and being member of the RPF was somewhat very interesting and a lot of us might enjoy the video because I thought it was very interesting and a good to know if you are into prop collecting.
 

Usurper

Veteran Hunter
I think it's a good topic dude, it lets newer members get a insight as to how people feel about such a raw nerve of a topic, and also gives us older members a idea if how some think.

Adam savage is awesome and the vid is a good watch.
 

Guan Thwei

Elite Hunter
Usurper said:
I think it's a good topic dude, it lets newer members get a insight as to how people feel about such a raw nerve of a topic, and also gives us older members a idea if how some think.

Adam savage is awesome and the vid is a good watch.
Adam Savage is awesome. I never knew he was also into making and wearing costumes just like the rest of us he wore a Mark 1 Iron Man outfit and he always goes to SDCC every year from the sounds of it. It makes me look forward to meeting him in person if I ever get the chance.
 

PredatrHuntr

Veteran Hunter
First rule of recasting...don't talk about recasting. Seriously. There are so many grey areas that the lines get crossed all the time. People say recasting is the devils work but own several pieces of recasters items in their collection. The hypocracy and self-serving adjustments are funny at times.

Too many people get their panties in a knot when they aren't even involved, or say they hate people who recast and still own and purchase recasted items. It's honestly better not to talk about it...easier and less controversy that way.
 

lflank

Hunter
I agree with Savage that it's totally a case-by-case thing. 

An example:  I have an animal skull that I use as a neck ornament for one of my pred costumes.  It's actually a ceramic aquarium ornament and it is VERY heavy. The ONLY thing preventing me from casting a resin copy of it so I can wear a lighter version is that I don't have the technical skill to make such a cast. But I would if I could.

Technically, that would be "re-casting".  BUT (1) the original maker of the skull would not be losing a dime, since I paid for the one I bought and I cannot buy any resin copy from him anyway (if I could I gladly would pay for a resin copy), (2) I won't be making a single nickel from the re-casting either and am not doing it for the money, since I'm not selling any casts to anyone anywhere at any time, and (3) I'm using the recast solely and only for my own personal noncommercial use.

So under those circumstances, would I be a "recaster"? Would I be kicked off the Lair and/or shunned?

Suppose other people then who have the same aquarium ornament and who would like a lightweight resin version contact me and offer to provide the cost of materials for me to make copies for them, too. Does that change anything?

Then suppose instead of a mass-produced aquarium ornament, I'm re-casting a lightsaber or some other prop to make a lightweight durable stunt version (a version which is not available from the maker)? Does that change anything? What if I only use it myself, in a fan film?  What if I provide resin copies at cost to others who want unavailable stunt versions?

Where's the line, and when do I cross it?

I do understand the Lair's policy of "zero recasting, period", and I agree with it for the most part--it avoids exactly the kind of arguments we are having here in this thread.  But that doesn't change the fact that it's just not a black and white issue.
 

starbeast62

Young Blood
Re casting or copying somebody elses work is the work of a plagurist..i don t care if its Pred , Alien , or flamin Andy Pandy..if i had some gink re doing anything
iv,e done i would be livid..theres people on this site spend a lot of time chasing stuff they need to build what they want as their own in homage to what
inspires them from films etc..they work hard to make the pounds,dollars day in day out and we see their progress on the lair and it inspires us to get up
off our bottys ( bums) an get on with our own..however a re caster just takes all that hard work ,time,effort,an devotion ..bins it an slaps out copies an then has the neck to stamp it as his own as long as he,s making the nelson eddies ( readies..cash)..he,s happy an thats nothin more than a flamin pirate..have a nice xmas..
 

TRI LASER

Hunter
Reply has been down since yesterday so not had a chance to continue what i was going to say. Anyway.  What i wanted to say was like i said in the previous post,  that i have absolutely no intention to re-cast anything of mine. I do not have the means nor the money or the skills to re-cast. So Lee, you and the staff can sleep well tonight. I know it sounded that i was being a hypocrite saying that recasting was wrong yet i still buy recasts and maybe to an extent you were right. I wouldn't buy a recast from a fan made piece because i know how much time and effort has gone into it. But a big company piece, one that has been churned out for big bucks? Well.. I'll let ppl decide the morality on that one.

Anyway saying that you would just pretty much mug off anyone who has bought a re-cast just stuns me. How many people on the lair have re-casts? A **** load i bet. Only because they want to own an accurate piece of cinema history that doesn't cost an arm and a leg. So your saying that if someone cant afford a sideshow wolf bio that means that they can never have one? I wonder how many people on here would own up to having re-casts in there collection and if you would then tell them all they have tiny balls that will drop off this Christmas? No, didn't think so. I'm just trying to be civil with you about my opinion and hear yours but making sarcy and childish comments to make yourself look big in front of other lair members is just bang out of order.

At the end of the day aren't we all here just to have fun collecting?

Anyway, there is my opinion, take it or leave it i don't care.
 

wonko

Hunter
If someone can't afford a sideshow bio, then no, they'll never own a sideshow bio. Not being able to afford something doesn't make recasting okay. I can HONESTLY say I do NOT own a recast of anything. Everything I own either came from an artist here in the lair, or I made it.

Brian
 

the eldest

Blooded
Good for you Brian. Think that goes back to what I said earlier about elitism. " you don't have the skills, time or money to buy an original piece, then you don't have one" what kind of an attitude is that?
How many youngbloods join the lair, full of dreams of owning a suit, only to be told, "you can't afford £x for a mask or bio etc. you don't have the skills to make pieces? Tough!!! Join the Boy Scouts instead.
As I stated before, making money from someone else's hard work is morally wrong, but it was human nature and will never go away. So to jump on someone with both feet because he's found a "bargain" on fleabay is elitist.
 

TRI LASER

Hunter
And that's fair enough Brian. I totally respect your opinion on that. Yes i see what you mean about not having something because you can't afford it but for some of us that's not an option. If someone really wants something that they can't afford then buying then second best thing can sometimes be the only option to them. Yes it might not be to the same standard but sometimes its better than nothing. As that guy said in the video, I want an iron man mask. Fair enough. Saying that what im saying is only fueling the re-caster's is complete rubbish. As long as there are props to recast then they are going to do them. Just like there being free music and films that can me easy to download ppl will still get it for free. Me saying how i feel is not gonna change anything. If there not real fans and only out to make a quick buck then well.. that's on there conscience. My conscience is clear.
 
Nearly everyone in this hobby has bought a recast at some point.  Doing so doesn't make them a hypocrite because it's usually something you buy early on and purely out of ignorance.  I purchased a recasted sideshow helmet early on myself and didn't have a clue until it was pointed out to me later on down the road.  Did I continue to buy recasts?  No.  Why?  It's wrong.  Did I resale it?  No.  Why?  It's wrong.  The truth is all of it comes down to the individual buying and how pliable the persons morality is.  No need for justification because it's a decision on the buyers shoulders and the buyer alone but lets not fool ourselves by thinking it's not lining a recasters pocket to some degree. 

We can do this whole back and forth thing until time stands still.  Let's just all agree to disagree and call it a day.  As my grandpappy use to say, "Opinions are like assholes.  Everyones got one."
 

wonko

Hunter
Buying a less expensive bio for example, is exactly my point.  There are allot of great and talented guys (and gals) right here on the lair that sell a quality and very accurate bio for a whole lot less than a Sideshow.  That's why I bought from Termokk and not from Sideshow.  The thing is, a  Sideshow ceases to become a Sideshow the second it's recast.  So I can't buy a recast Sideshow and tell everyone I own a Sideshow piece.  I can afford to buy from them, but choose not to spend that kind of money.  I will, however, pay a couple hundred for a bio from a lair member, because I support what the guys do here, and because I can't do it myself.  I own 4 Pred related items, and all 4 were bought from 2 well known members here.  That's how I know I have never bought a recast.  I think Tom makes an excellent point about not knowing any better when first starting out.  I lurked the lair for almost a year before making any purchases, so I knew the "zero tolerance" policy well.  I found a bio mold on Ebay for $100.00 shipped.  Hell of a good price, right?  I asked the seller for more info on it and he pulled the old "I'm selling it for a friend" thing and wouldn't give me any info on the sculptor  or where it even came from.  I wouldn't have spent $1.00 on it not knowing where it came from.  Sure, I could have bought it, not told anyone, and just cast up myself up an ass load of bios.  Even without selling them for profit, it's the wrong thing to do.  At the end of the day, I have to do what I have to do to feel good about myself.  That's all that really matters to me.

YMMV...

Brian
 

TRI LASER

Hunter
At no point will i say that a re-cast that i have bought is my own piece. I just collect because i want a screen accurate bio that doesn't cost the world, that's all. Yes i have money to buy a sideshow piece (and i have in the past) but would have much more self achievement if i got a raw cast and painted it myself. A major sideshow collectable is either way to expensive for the quality you are getting or is sold out to the point that you will never be able to get one again. Anyway im tired of trying to get my point across. Just forget i said anything. Merry Christmas everyone.  :D
 
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