For those of you debating the accuracy of the HCG P1 helmet piece!

Faken

Hunter
UPDATE - IF YOU WANT TO BUY THIS BIO, PLEASE PURCHASE IT USING BY CLICKING HERE AND USING MY AFFILIATE ID THANKS!

Hey guys,

Some of your guys were debating the authenticy of the new piece being sold by Hollywood Collectibles as it is quite pricey and being billed as direct from the molds from SWS. Here is the pice I am talking about: http://www.hollywood-collectibles.com/predator.html

(By the way, please don't preorder this yet if possible, you can help pay some Lair bills by pre-order this through my affiliate code I should have this week).

Now then, the items in question were th temple piece with 2 holes instead of 3, the non ribbing part at the extra spines on the jaw-line connector.

This was posted by ICE:

bio.jpg


So naturally when paying this kind of price, one would be very concerned about accuracy... after all, if this is cast from the real deal, why isn't it dead on accurate?! Well guys, good question, and I have been looking in it this week. I semi-grilled my new friend Mark from HCG and he went directly to John Rosengrant at SWS for the answers. So here's the deal:

First off, let's talk about what is from the original molds and what is cast from existing pieces:

- The following items on this piece are castings from the ORIGINAL MOLDS: Armor, Dreads and Cannon
- The bio itself is made from a mold that was cast from the last surviving bio from the filming.

Let's address the first issue... why doesn't the bio look exactly like the closeup shots we've all seen? It's because there were several bios used in the film, and they weren't identical. Here is a photo of the last surviving bio from filming Predator, which currently sits in John Rosengrant's office:

SWS_original.jpg


You can clearly see it does not have a ribbed temple piece and there are only 2 hose holes, not 3 like the other mask we've seen in behind the scenes stuff. This is the bio that was used to create the mold for the replicas.

Next issue... why does the cannon look different that in the movie? The cannon in the replica is fresh from the mold and not damaged in any way. The original used in the movie came from this exact mold, but was accidentally blown up and damaged by the effects guys on location and had to rebuilt and repair the cannon using whatever junk they could find on-site.

Also, bear in mind the back half of the cannon is cut off so it mounts flush to the wall (This is a wall hanging piece, not a full bust). Here's a better look at the detailing of the cannon on the replica sent to me by Mark:

CIMG0978.JPG


Also, here is some inside information offered directly from John:

The helmet that is the basis of the replica is a real helmet from the film. Knowing how crazy it was to create the helmets, suits, heads, and guns etc. there were differences. To give an example, the Pred's gun that was extensively photographed prior to Mexico and early in the shooting differs from the final shots in the movie as the effects guys blew the gun apart by accident and it was rebuilt on the spot with whatever was on hand - stuff happens. This helmet, the only original one that still exists to my knowledge (unless someone has a stolen one) sits in my office and is the one we took a mold off. Is it different than the one in the photo - yes, but it is an orginal.

All the best,

John
So for those of you that were wondering about this, that's what I was able to come up with over the last week

So now this question: DESPITE this bio coming directly from a screen-used original, do you think it should be modified to look like the one we're used to seeing in closeups or should it stay true to the original from which it was cast?

Booya!

Dan
 
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carlart

Hunter
It should be modified to look like the one we're used to. The HCG cannon just don't cut it. From what John says, they rebuilt the one they had on site for filming purposes. In all the slow mo's and screen caps of the cannon I've seen, I really didn't see the one sitting on the shoulder of the HCG piece. Maybe the rebuild was just used for distant shots, etc. for continuity.
If I can pull together photos from high and low, I wonder why the HCG folks didn't---who knows. Thanks to Dan and Mr. Rosengrant for their input on this.

BTW, a final rendition of my cannon (gen. 3) is on my big to-do list. It will be even more screen accurate (pre-blow up) than the current one.
carlart
 

kwalsh000

Blooded
Personally i thought it would have been better if it was the one we were used to seeing because after all thats where we all get to see it. So while its cast from one of many original molds its not screen accurate, that cant be denied, but it is accurate to the original mold before being modified. Im not trying to be a smart arse but they say in description its screen accurate even tho its not screen accurate, its accurate to the original mold. Ok im confusing myself now:p I vote that they shud have went for a screen accurate one rather than copies of the off screen ones. Either way its a sweet piece and if i had the money i would
 

Ice

Hunter
You know, if they changed it in any way, we wouldn't have a screen accurate bio. So, I'm glade the left it alone. But i'm very curious to see my Helmet next to this screen accurate bio.
 

Ice

Hunter
You know I do think there are a few collectors out there that have a P1 bio from the movie. I know thats just not the only one out there.

Click
 

Faken

Hunter
You know I do think there are a few collectors out there that have a P1 bio from the movie. I know thats just not the only one out there.

Click
The one in the background is a replica piece I believe, not a screen used one... as far as I know, that episode only shows a screen used Gaunt (seen this vid a few hundred times to drool lol)
 

inkmonster

Hunter
if it was casted from the original molds and they were trying to be screen accurate. whay did they add all the extra stuff on the underside? the original bio had nothing on the underside of it as you can see in the pic. i guess they did it so they could add to the price. i would still like to have one for my collection. i would actually like to just have the bio and to heck with the wall mount. it would be cool if they released a edition of just the bio.
 

Faken

Hunter
if it was casted from the original molds and they were trying to be screen accurate. whay did they add all the extra stuff on the underside? the original bio had nothing on the underside of it as you can see in the pic. i guess they did it so they could add to the price. i would still like to have one for my collection. i would actually like to just have the bio and to heck with the wall mount. it would be cool if they released a edition of just the bio.
Well you technically don't even see the underside, so they had to make it up I suppose :p

Dan
 

Faken

Hunter
I don't, simply because the Icons bio, which is not accurate and not as complete a piece as this, sells for the same or more.
 

Faken

Hunter
Just because something else sells for more doesn't necessarily make this a good deal. If it were a full bust and not a wall ornament, maybe.
Well if a lesser product sells at this price point, why wouldn't it be? I think the price makes complete sense... heck even Jamie's Gen 5 bios that he did sold for $600 and that was just a bio, not cast from the original. It's a big price, but you're getting 4 items made from SWS molds, which justifies the price for me.
 

inkmonster

Hunter
well the one thing that they are saying came from the original molds that theres no way it did is the plasma cannon. they claim it was dropped then had to be glued and stuff added in a hurry to make the film. theres really nothing on that plasma cannon that looks anything like the one in the film. i have my doubts as to its accuracy but the rest of it is cool.
 

Faken

Hunter
well the one thing that they are saying came from the original molds that theres no way it did is the plasma cannon. they claim it was dropped then had to be glued and stuff added in a hurry to make the film. theres really nothing on that plasma cannon that looks anything like the one in the film. i have my doubts as to its accuracy but the rest of it is cool.
Wasn't dropped.. it was actually blown up lol! Bear in mind the back is cut off for the wall mount... I dunno at this point, I doubt John at SWS would lie about it and he's directly involved in the creation of this piece.
 

Studio Stasis

Unblooded
Hey Ice,
Nice to see you again, I just complimented your paint job on your celtic bio today.

Hey guys,

The clip of Sci Fi Trader that you see that Ice provided was digitized and offered by me a couple of years ago. I sent it to someone named Don who also goes by Uncle DJ on his email on Fri 1/28/05. His email address was TheNewPharaoh.

Anyway, thats how this video began circulation. I'm glad to see it got hosting somewhere. I am the guy at the very end of the clip who the frame freezes on at the end of the interview.

The wrist system you see on the show is from Jim Latta, shown in the interview. His Bio helmet shown in the interview was a non screen used stunt that was in pristine condition but was made with the screen used helmets as a standby helmet. Jim created the company Icons years after this, so I just assumed that their Bio was cast from this one.

At Icons, a couple of people were responsible for adding the ribbed temple detail, and the opposite laser temple detail, and the cog in the cheek. They were given VERY limited VHS screen captures to sculpt these parts. Therefore, those parts on the Icons helmet were not accurate. Dave Mosher sculpted those parts and was one of the two people who designed and sculpted the Predator helmet base that Icons featured their helmet on. Dave has since resculpted those parts of the helmet based on direct help from someone at Winstons who helped with the bio on the film.

The reason those parts needed to be sculpted was that they were not present on the unused stunt Bio that Jim had on the show and later casted for the Icons helmet. This is guesswork on my part, but this TV show predates Icons by a few years, so there were no "castings" floating around of the bio helmet other than the real ones. This was July of 1994 when we filmed the show. I have pictures from the set of the Bio as well. I believe it is where all of the fan bios come from.

With this new bust it appears they had a totally different source. I am skeptical on the whole explanation of the shoulder cannon differences and such because of similar claims made by Shepperton Design Studios about their original Stormtrooper Moulds being reworked here and there to explain their subtle differences to the screen helmets, which aren't subtle differences at all. I guess this scenario is very different since the cannon that came from the mold was literally rebuilt from scratch on the set. Why was there only one casting that was destroyed on set? If you look at any shots from the set there were always multiple suits and castings. I'm just not sure I get it. I think a little more proof would be nice. Its still an awesome Predator collectible. I'd love to have it in my collection but I am skeptical as to its original molds claim. It still looks way cool. I'm glad they are offering it.

Josh
 
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