Im insaine i tell ya Insaine!!!! College?

R

RaptorArts

Guest
Not only with the financial problems but now I do this to myself.

Due to my love of sculpture and Illustration art I have decided to go back to college but rather than a 2 year college where I learned how to sculpt(took 6.5 years worth) I am considering going to a 4 year college and you guys know how much that costs. I may be moving down to Ashville, still in Oregon. It will be sometime in January or mid Summer next year If I can get the funds for it. I think this will center around if my mom sells the house early or later in the year of 2007. If she does sell the house it will be a place that she can handle thats not so big. As for me I want to persue my love of art in 2D which will help me in my Sculpture a 1000 fold. The college Teaches ONLY art and nothing more. So 4 years of art cramed into my head from anatomy to shading and textures, postures and backgrounds, and more things that i cant think of right off hand. I have my art box ready and hoping for the best.

I know I said this nearly a year ago and I am doing it, its just taking a while. I am selling nearly everything if i do get to college or move out on my own. I have to travel light and so that I might have enough money to cover the 1st year of college. Each year will cost me 5k and that doesnt include the $30. model fee per visiting model. And we all know what living expenses are like. Though I hear Ashland is a beautiful place so I hope I can call it home without geting home sick. Living away from family is going to be the hardest thing I have ever done. But it all depends on when the house sells if or when. Still... I do plan on lightening my load. I have too much **** that I have been packing around. I am sending a bit of my stuff to an auction starting in Janurary. Seems they cant take it this year

Almost forgot to say that when I graduate in 4 years I will be a professional illustrator (I hope) which also boosts my sculpture skills. Which means my tallents will be more desireable and I can probably live off my art without working for sombody.. Unless its Stan Winston

Man I wish I could meet that guy! I also want to see the studio so bad! I just want to smell the algenate and feel the concreet floors.. Just once in my Freakin life PLEASE!

Same goes for George Lucas and his studio!

*sighs* ok I will stop my rambling....
 
T

The Big Gunns

Guest
Have fun in college.. teehee

BTW Vince..

I've learned that in the fx biz.. it's not how good you are... it's more of who you know. There are tons of talented people who aren't working in the studios. But there are too many of them and not enough jobs. It's good to persue it.. but always have a backup plan.
Good luck!


~Mel
 
S

seknewb

Guest
Vince -

COLLEGE - BIG THUMBS UP, but as far as FX are concerned...

Like Mel says, unfortunately, talent has very little to do with staying busy in the FX biz. It's nearly ALL about who you know. All the degrees and education and experience in the world won't do squat in getting your foot in the door unless the industry is booming and short-handed, which it isn't right now at all. Look how many of the "big" shops have closed their doors in the last few years. Some of the most talented people in the business can't stay busy and have left for other more "stable" careers in other fields that utilize their skill sets. Most of the biggest shops (that are still around) won't give you the time of day without a direct referral from someone they've worked with previously.

There are a number of reasons behind this, but truthfully, a lot of it comes down to ego and fear. I've seen this far to many times in my time in the biz. Ego in the sense that there is a strong attitude of, "I've worked on... (whatever film...) and these young punks grew up worshipping my work and therefore I'm better than them (whether it's true or not)." Fear (and nobody will admit this) in the sense that the new guy is often "better" than the veteran and the vet is "scared" of looking "bad". While this isn't always the case, the shops are/can be extremely "cliquey" (sp?) with the "life-ers" going out of their way to protect their positions, even in some cases, to the extent of holding back talent which could be beneficial to the show. Throw in the fact that many of those same "life-ers" are supervising specific effects or entire shows, and you end up with a bad situation all around if you're just trying to start out. As I said, this isn't always the case by any means, but it is prevolent in many of the big shops, and Winston's is unfortunately one of the worst. I certainly won't name individuals, and it's not everyone by any means, but there is a LOT of unwarranted ego from people who aren't half as "good" as the temp hires who come in to pick up the slack in getting a job done.

My point in all of this isn't to be negative or discouraging toward your ambition. It's only to give insight into what you're looking forward to. I learned the hard way over the last 15 years what it takes to survive in that world, and it's still tough at times even knowing probably 90% of the people in the business on some level.

Like Mel said, have something to fall back on. If you're going back to school for illustration or whatever form of art, keep your mindset on the "real" world (corporate/advertising/product design/etc) and look at the film world as a possible goal that would be "nice" to reach although probably not a sustainable career.

Truth be told, many of the vets in the FX business will tell you the same thing when asked about their future career. Nearly all will say, "I just wish I could find something else to do that would pay as well but be more stable. I'm tired of spending months out of work and then fighting to get a job that lasts for a few weeks just to end up back in the unemployment line." I hear this constantly. I've said it myself. We all LOVE what we do absolutely, but it's not what it used to be, and unfortunately, once you get used to the kind of income the film industry can give (on the short term) it is nearly impossible to find another line of work that will pay as well and still be enjoyable.


I hate to sound so negative about this. I've seen your posts on this and many other boards and you certainly have the desire. I just want you to understand that desire and talent only take you part way any more. Have a fall-back plan, because these days, there's a strong chance you're going to need it.

On that, good luck with school, and I truely hope that you do reach your goals of making it in the FX world.
 
T

The Mortal Immortal

Guest
After college I got a job for a large corporation doing 2D art. The company decided to down size and move to another state. The whole art department lost there jobs, some were there for 20-30 years. Well now I make signs and do vector art for different companies on the side. It is hard to find a job with out some good connections. Not to say you would do good Vince, but artist are a dime a dozen. If it’s just to improve your skills great, but if you’re looking for a high paying job not sure. I wish you the best of luck in your new adventures, and hope things go your way.

Scott
 
R

RaptorArts

Guest
Thanks guys I apreciate the feedback.

as for this...
As I said, this isn't always the case by any means, but it is prevolent in many of the big shops, and Winston's is unfortunately one of the worst.
How is it one of the worst? Just curious. I alwo want big time to do some work for George Lucas.

All in all these skills I have learned and will be learning are for my future in keeping financially stable. I may not get the chance to work on a big film but my hopefull new skill of illustration in 4 years will help me in the gaming, model kit, toy, cartoon, businesses. If not that people will always buy good art and I can paint on canvas and sell for lots of money, "only if i am good enough and people want what I got." I know its a very hard life for an artist but its all i can do. Literally. I am not teck minded so i cant do the CGI bit. I cant program or debug a pc. I can build a pc with parts from a store but thats useless. I can build things but im not a contractor nor would I even consider it.

Life has led me down the narrow path of sink or swim and right now I think im starting to sink and I need annother skill in the arts to bring me back to the surface. Sculpture alone wont pay the bills unless I do huge sculptures like statues but I dont have any comissions for that and I cant spend the money to do it if I dont have a buyer.

I hope this college will do the trick.
Thanks again guys
 
S

seknewb

Guest
How is it one of the worst? Just curious.
Vince -

It's not an easy thing to describe unfortunately. I'd be writing a book of examples. At the same time, I don't want to destroy anybody's "fantasy" either.

Basically, you need to keep in mind that what you read about in magazines and see on tv and dvd is the highly abriged version of the fx world. Let's call it the 5% of the job which is glamorous. The other 95% of the job is EXTREMELY long hours (often 60, 70, 80 or even 100+ hours a week), hard work, very little recognition, gratitude, and/or acknowledgement of your contributions, and stress over where the next pay check will come from because your "friends" are only really your friends AFTER they've secured their own job position or as long as they are working.

Personally, I worked for SWS on 9 features and several commercials. Looking back, I had a good time (as I always have since I'm doing what I love), but, it was some of the least enjoyable time I've spent in the business. I've found that the majority of people who actively bounce around between the shops will tell you the same thing. My thoughts were summed up perfectly by a friend (who quit SWS) who put it like this. "I grew up watching the Terminator and Aliens thinking that Stan's would be the end all - be all of shops. After working there, I hope I NEVER need to go back."

What it comes down to is the "glamour" I mentioned before. The public sees the cool stuff coming out of there back in the day and is dazed into believing (as a fan) that this place is going to be like heaven or something. They see the magic that is movies and mistake it for reality. The true reality is, and again I won't mention names, that you have a core group of "life-ers" (artists, etc) who have been there forever. Some are wonderful people. Others are just stuck on themselves and survive off their own egos. These individuals will call in their friends to help on the jobs, regardless of the talent or reliability. One individual comes to mind that has been called back repeatedly but is generally shunned by the rest of the FX shops for the fact that they can't do ANYTHING right. Unfortunately, this individual is tight with one of the key players there and that keeps him coming back for more repeatedly. Is it fair? Of course not. It's just reality.

Every shop is guilty of this attitude. I'm not trying to single out SWS. Just having worked at every one of the major companies at some point, I will say without hesitation that SWS was the least gracious and most "Cliquey" (sp?) of all of them BY FAR. I have a number of examples which would sell this fact undisputably, but unfortunately, I can't openly comment on them without completely assassinating certain people's character, which I won't do.

In the end, everyone needs to find out for themselves and form their own opinions. Just speaking from a lot of experience, and based on the opinions of the majority of the people you will talk to, the only people that truly enjoy Winston's are the handful who are labeled as "life-ers" there, and even with them it's questionable. I tend to think that a lot of them really only like it because of the $.

Again, this isn't intended to be negative or bashing even though I know it is. I still look forward to seeing what they willl come up with next. I'm just trying to help by saying that you NEED a back up plan if you're going to try to go into this business. I've taught courses at a number of the makeup schools in my down time, and every one of those people is shelling out tens of thousands of dollars in hopes of it helping them break into the business. In the end, of the roughly 150 or so people I've personally taught, I've seen only 3 actually work on a "real" film job and only 1 of them actively works now on a regualr basis. This is normal. I stopped teaching because of the BS that these people were being fed by the schools about how easy they would have it and how they could always be making tons of $.

Sorry to rain on the parade. I just don't like to see people with good intentions and high hopes walk into a situation blind and get crushed as a result.

Seriously, the best of luck to you. Just keep your expectations real and don't be blinded by the "magic".
 
C

carlart

Guest
Just to jump in here----
I don't have a dog in this race, but I just want to say how glad I am that seknewb is a member here, and lends his inside knowledge of the industry we're all fond of, to folks like Vince here. Thanks for filling in the blanks for us.
carlart
 
S

seknewb

Guest
I don't have a dog in this race, but I just want to say how glad I am that seknewb is a member here, and lends his inside knowledge of the industry we're all fond of, to folks like Vince here. Thanks for filling in the blanks for us.
It's really no problem at all Carl. There are so many more blanks that can be filled. I've hardly scratched the surface.

In the mean time though, I'm always happy to help out with some first-hand insight to the FX world. Especially in situations like this one where someone is trying to make "real-life" decisions. As we all know, the best decision will always come from an informed decision, even if the information seems negative or isn't what you might want to hear.
 
R

RaptorArts

Guest
Thanks for your information seknewb. I really apreciate it. I am glad theres sombody here who has the knowlege and background you have to give us a little insider to whats going on in the studios. If I ever get well known enough and I can eventually get my own place. I will try to start my own studio. I love art and like I said before its my life and only venue. (is that the right word?) The only thing that would enable me to actually start a studio like that though is to be in the supply and demand zone. Which right now im not even close. I am more in the Freaky arts and crafts zone LOL. Oh well its all a dream hopefully one of them comes true. Ya never know

Thanks again!
 
M

MEANGENE83

Guest
Wow i just read your entire post...

Makes sense that there is the same Drama in somewhere like SWS just as there is in real everyday life.

Stinks... means that people like vince who have these aspirations basically dont have a chance in hell of "catching a break".

Very interesting stuff indeed, changed my whole outlook on things.
I still love the hobby 110%.
 
R

RaptorArts

Guest
Arg! ok now i am split between the sculpting classes and illustration classes! each class is 5k a year, 4 semesters, and they have only 7 dorms or rooms for rent. I am applying for one for the 2nd 3rd and 4th semester. I think I have the basic knowlege down but just in case I will email the college and ask if i can do that. Man it sucks having zero cash.
 
T

The Big Gunns

Guest
Vince- I think you will have a better chance at getting a job in the illustration field. You can tweak your sculpting abilites by practicing, videos, etc.
If it was me.. I would try to take a little bit of everything and not focus on one subject. It will make you a more well rounded artist and you'll have more job opportunites. My last job as a scenic arist required me to be able to draw, paint, airbrush, sculpt,fiberglass, etc (all the classes I took in college) The shop had different sections so when the work was done in one section I moved to another. If I only had knowelge of sculpting.. I would have been out of a job after the sculpting part of the project was done.

$5000 is a lot of cash so invest it wisely.. its your future!
~Mel
 
C

CyberPred

Guest
I agree all the way.

Seems like anything that has to do with Prop Field, F/X Etc has the same problems.

Cary
 
R

RaptorArts

Guest
Ok talked to the councelor in the Art Instutute of Portland Oregon. This is what I typed out from my notes.

Industrial Design
Bachelor of Science
Eleven-Week Quarters &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 12
Total Credits &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 180
Tuition per Credit &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp $398.00
Additional Costs &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp $0.00
Application Fee &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp $50.00
Enrollment Fee &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp $100.00
Total Program Tuition &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp $71,640.00
Starting Kit &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp $855.00
Supplies & Texts
(estimate per Month) &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp $100.00

www.aipd.aii.edu/interview/gls.pdf

Get it in early.
www.fafsa.ed.gov/

www.aipd.aii.edu/interview/
www.artinstitutes.edu/por...uition.asp

Tuition rat $398
Application fee $150

Examples of Industrial Design:
core77.com
idsa.org


I was also thinking about a more affordable college that doesnt do the BA degree. which is the "Ashland Academy of the Arts" www.ashlandacademyofart.com/

This college will only cost me 20k rather than the outlandish 80K but I do have over 200 credits and classes from my 2 year college that may reduce it to 70k but still. The councelor things I fit the profile of an Industrial artist. I dont think so. I am more into what Steve Wang does and all the fx people here and everywhere else do which is create creatures, animate them and bring things to life. Also regular sculpture and Illustration. So you kind of have an idea of what I want to do by the stuff on my site but i need your guys input. I dont think industrial design is for me really. I dont want to invent the next schick razor i want to bring the next robo sapien to the big screen or make statues or maquettes for game companies or museums. You know what i mean?

So like I said input really will help. I have very little cash less than 1k in the bank so this will be the biggest leap of my life here.
 
P

ptgreek

Guest
Interesting topic Vince...I can really relate to what you are going through and even more to some of the comments/advice given. After spending about 8 years in the night club industry and wasting a biochem degree, I decided to persue a childhood dream of film making. I started exactly where I thought I would want to go...Lucasfilms. Through mutual friends, I was introduced to one of thier head conceptual artists, Ian McCaig. Ian is a really cool, very insightful man, who pointed me in the direction of San Francisco's Academy of Art University. I am currently in my last year of a second degree program there. Now like I said befor, I was hoping to go to work for Lucasfilms. What I have learned is that Lucas films is not exactly what it is cracked up to be. Most of my teachers have worked there at one time or another. Many of them played intregal parts in the filming of the prequals ( and some the original) While they still have close working connections with the company, many of them say that it is much like the described SWS. The new facility is beautiful and I have been lucky enough to use some of their editing facilities, but after getting to know a bit more about the industry that I have chosen....the glamour of Lucasfilms is sort of gone. My passion for my work, however has increased. I am aware of a film world far beyond my earlier inspirations and know that there is a place for me in it. Vince, I say if you have the means, persue your education and your dream. Keep yourself aware of all possiblities and you will fallow a path that is right for you.
 
T

The Big Gunns

Guest
Vince-

I read some of the replies on the fx board and they are 100% correct IMO. If you want to persue being an fx artist then art school really isn't going to help. If you feel you must go to a school you should look into makeup schools for that. But I know allot of people who went to these schools with dreams of working the field. Only to find out after they spent all that money- the field is overpopulated and not enough jobs.

I think most fx people have a main job.. and the fx work is their second. If you are thinking about college.. you should be choosing that as your main job. The fx field second in your spare time. It's hard as an artist to have to have one job when you really want to be doing something else. I have had allot of jobs that had nothing to do with art. But I did my art on the side and that enough for me.

So I think maybe you should just put the whole fx field on the back burner for now. Thats my 2 cents
 
R

RaptorArts

Guest
*sighs* well i guess im back to learning on my own then.
The college in portland is out of the question. Way too much crap to take that I dont need and too expensive too boot.

I would like to take that illustration class though at the Ashland Art College. But till I have the funding im screwed. I am working on that problem though. Thanks for the feedback guys.
 
B

blk n blu dream

Guest
That's awesome, I'm going back to school too! I'm a Boilermaker! WOOT!
 
Top