Mask Creation Questions

ThorKrohn

Blooded
First of all I want to say thanks to the community again for all your help getting started with this! I am happy to report that the clay I used, after a bit of sealer, seems to be holding together good! I have a few more layers to put on this head specifically as I learned that I should have expanded the actual foam head underneath the clay more than I did, mask is a bit small.

Second, as I am new to working with clay, applying details to my clay has been a bit challenging. Anyone have any tips on tools and methods for applying things like skin wrinkles, textures etc. for a good Predator look?

Thanks again gang!

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Wreav

Elite Hunter
Community Staff
www.stanwinstonschool.com/tutorials/monster-suit-sculpt-character-creation-tutorial# <- I highly recommend watching this, if not purchasing it if you need it. I was recommended it by Predatoj, as well as A Hunters Moon it came in very handy. You also have a list of things to purchase. The stream lasts for a life time. So in future if someone close to you wants to try something like this they can always refer back to the stream and so on. To make scales I recommend using cling film, pressing it over the wet clay and slowly (not piercing the film) create diagonal lines ones that cross hatch one another.
 

troggs

Hunter
I definitely recommend the Stan Winston courses as Wreav suggested, and at the moment they've got 50% off for 48 hours. One more thing to take into account is latex shrinkage, it can shrink by 20% so ideally you should make your sculpt 20% larger to accommodate this.
 

ThorKrohn

Blooded
I definitely recommend the Stan Winston courses as Wreav suggested, and at the moment they've got 50% off for 48 hours. One more thing to take into account is latex shrinkage, it can shrink by 20% so ideally you should make your sculpt 20% larger to accommodate this.
I remember hearing/reading that it can shrink 20-30%.....there is a lot to take in with this type of casting! Thanks for the info and for your reply! I will turn out a decent mask sooner or later because of all the help! Seriously thanks, I appreciate the feed back! I am making a notebook with all this info to refer to as I go!

On a unrelated note, I used to do a lot of advertising before I went to work as a firefighter, so I put together a quick logo for my fire shift and my captain is considering lettin my shift use it!
 

ThorKrohn

Blooded
I remember hearing/reading that it can shrink 20-30%.....there is a lot to take in with this type of casting! Thanks for the info and for your reply! I will turn out a decent mask sooner or later because of all the help! Seriously thanks, I appreciate the feed back! I am making a notebook with all this info to refer to as I go!

On a unrelated note, I used to do a lot of advertising before I went to work as a firefighter, so I put together a quick logo for my fire shift and my captain is considering lettin my shift use it!

Sorry, here is the logo! Lol!

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ThorKrohn

Blooded
So, since I have already began this project with the wrong type of clay, and since I don't fancy myself a quitter, I am still working to see if I can get a decent cast out this head. As and experiment with the terra cotta (mostly because it is super cheap) I am continuing to add layers, and allowed the clay to dry in the sun after adding another layer of clay over a sealer layer! Takin into account my shrinkage rules, this head is almost the right size to yield a good size mask.

If it is a bust in the end, as a beginner, I will have taken away some great learning experiences for round two: First of all I feel much more comfortable working with clay, I am starting to tray and add detail and using a lot of the suggestions from the community which have made me more comfortable.
Second, I know have a real feel for the size of mask I need, a knowledge of the materials I'll need and the costs, as well as a MUCH better understanding of how the process is accomplished from start to finish. I did want to explain this as most of you have offered invaluable advice on materials (such as clay type), and as I continue to work on this particular experiment as I am calling it, I don't want you all to think I have not listened thoroughly to your advice! So with all that said, so far I have only spent 20 dollars on clay and this starter styrofoam head which has turned out to have been a beneficial learning experience!

As for the clay in question, with a dealer and using te sun to dry the clay quicker, it seems to be holding together surprisingly better than it initially had for me!

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Wreav

Elite Hunter
Community Staff
Well, first of all there is no 'wrong clay' (unless it's play dough or some other things, but that's not the point) water based/oil have their upsides and downs. Terracotta correct me if i'm wrong is water based like WED Clay, Wed Clay was used in the production of Predator 2 their whole suits etc was made from water based clay that could break at any time so they basically did what you are doing. 'Sealing and so on' there is a video about it on the SWS, (Which I might add is free on youtube, it's like 5 minutes but you understand the idea).

The more expensive route, that I have personally been told to go through by some of my Pred friends is to purchase Chavant Nsp Medium or Monster Clay, 'expensive here in the UK' with all the added tax. If you're good with water based clay basically you just saved your self $400+ when constructing a full suit. Waterbased clay is good for quick workers.
One thing, always remember once you make a cast, your sculpt will be destroyed the survival rate is extremely low (it sound's like i'm talking about Ebola... never mind about that) once you decide to make a cast there is no going back ;) it's a great adventure..
 

predatoj

Blooded
Terracotta is not like WED clay. Terracotta is traditionally for making Bowls and ornaments, it’s mud straight from out of the ground. WED clay was formulated by the industry specifically for FX work, it contains glycerine to prolong it’s life. The industry formulate clays for FX work Chavant and WED being among them. Terracotta is not the correct clay for what we do and is why he's fighting a losing battle with it. It’s not just about drying out and cracking it’s about the texture of clay, WED will hold detail much better,Terracotta is too soft. I used it to make my mold wall and I even found that a struggle, so I don't even rate it as a utility clay. The best sculptors would achieve poor results with clays not intended for the FX industry.
 
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predatoj

Blooded
I definitely recommend the Stan Winston courses as Wreav suggested, and at the moment they've got 50% off for 48 hours. One more thing to take into account is latex shrinkage, it can shrink by 20% so ideally you should make your sculpt 20% larger to accommodate this.
I actually found that my pred head virtually didn't shrink at all, certainly not by eye. The polyfoam seems to stop the the shrinkage process in its tracks. If it did shrink it certainly wasn't by 20% or anything like.
 

ThorKrohn

Blooded
Hey so on the subject of shrinking, can any of you share the dimensions of your pred mask? I started with a styrofoam head, measured it and then measured my own head. So I built up the head to bring the measurements to where they needed to be. But as I continue on, it still seems a bit small...my wife walked by last night and said, just to bust my chops "Hey I think its great you are making a Pred mask for our 5 year old.... Incinuating it was to same.

Long story short, if someone wouldn't mind sharing some mask measurements for my comparison I would be grateful! Thanks gang!
 

ThorKrohn

Blooded
Hey so on the subject of shrinking, can any of you share the dimensions of your pred mask? I started with a styrofoam head, measured it and then measured my own head. So I built up the head to bring the measurements to where they needed to be. But as I continue on, it still seems a bit small...my wife walked by last night and said, just to bust my chops "Hey I think its great you are making a Pred mask for our 5 year old.... Incinuating it was to same.

Long story short, if someone wouldn't mind sharing some mask measurements for my comparison I would be grateful! Thanks gang!

Reread this and wanted to clarify: The head I started with as a base, the styrofoam head, was to small, so I used duck tape and paper to build it up until it matched the size of my head. I assumed that the clay would bring it up to size as I added layers.

Just looking for some comparisons! Thanks again!
 

Wreav

Elite Hunter
Community Staff
56-58 Cm length from the Chin to the start of the dread hairs. 58 Cm Width from the right seam line to the left.
Ever considered maybe buying a bio mask and trying to adapt your mask to the desired size? Just a thought.
 

ThorKrohn

Blooded
56-58 Cm length from the Chin to the start of the dread hairs. 58 Cm Width from the right seam line to the left.
Ever considered maybe buying a bio mask and trying to adapt your mask to the desired size? Just a thought.
Not a bad thought!
 

Tonkers D

Blooded

this may or may not be helpful. This is a tutorial I made 6 or 7 years ago...there are a few things I would do differently now with more experience, but it might be worth watching. best of luck.
 

ThorKrohn

Blooded

this may or may not be helpful. This is a tutorial I made 6 or 7 years ago...there are a few things I would do differently now with more experience, but it might be worth watching. best of luck.
Awesome! Sorry it has taken me so long to reply! My Ultra Cal is in route to the house as we speak! Still plugging away at the clay head, trying to make it look as decent as possible!

Thanks again!
 

ThorKrohn

Blooded
Ultra cal (y)
Decent (y)
Sounds like a good old brew. Hope to see some good pix's soon.
Man, I feel like the casting process will go pretty well...its this sculpted head that is giving me grief! I see all the work you guys do here in the lair and I don't feel like my ability to sculpt will be anywhere close to some of the awesome craftsmanship I see here....either way I am learning so eventually I may turn out something good!

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Wreav

Elite Hunter
Community Staff
I will give you a few quotes.
"It takes time." - Usurper
"Take your time and relax" - Pred666
"It takes '72 hrs' of time to be good at something, and 2 amount of time to be an expert." Deadpool (something like that I can't remember that far)
Take your time, the best critique is when you critique it yourself. I would always recommend to have visual aid. Don't be too hard on yourself, some members here would never like to remember their first mask they made. I know a couple who stand by that. You can do it!
 

ThorKrohn

Blooded
I will give you a few quotes.
"It takes time." - Usurper
"Take your time and relax" - Pred666
"It takes '72 hrs' of time to be good at something, and 2 amount of time to be an expert." Deadpool (something like that I can't remember that far)
Take your time, the best critique is when you critique it yourself. I would always recommend to have visual aid. Don't be too hard on yourself, some members here would never like to remember their first mask they made. I know a couple who stand by that. You can do it!
Thanks for the encouraging words (like the Deadpool quote, I am excited about the movie...) like I said, mask or bust, I am excited about the process! Thanks man!
 

MastersPred

Blooded
If you get fed up with the air drying it out constantly try and find a hobby lobby they have pretty cheap oil based clay comes in like 2-5-10 lbs i think the 10lb goes for 14. I believe it's called plasteline made by vanaken. I learned the hard way too but hey that's part of the fun, it took me in total 10 months to sculpt it was like month 5 and I came home the whole sculpt fell apart due to heat, but had her back in no time. Good luck have fun
 
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