Recast of my bio on ebay!!!

Oberon

Hunter
Wolverinepred, I can see where you are coming from but I don't think you quite get what people are saying (no offence intended).
Yes 90% of the items on this site are peoples reproductions of things made for the screen, but they were made by the people selling them. They spent the time (days, weeks, months depending on what it is) to recreate them, for a perfect example check out Usurpers newest P1, that sculpture may well be made from a design owned by fox, but it takes pure hard work and talent to make something as stunning as that mask is. Lee is not selling that mask, but if he decided to it would be snapped up by many of us here as it is one of the most accurate masks around. Yes technically it is a copyrighted creature by fox, but this is his take on it. I suspect Fox doesn't mind this site as it is free publicity for their movies and is not taking money away from them. I am sure they would feel different if they had screen quality suits made under licence, and no rubies do not count, but as they don't, they are not missing out on any business here, if anything it is probably making more for them.

The difference with recasters is that they are taking the mask (or whatever else) somebody here has painstakingly sculpted, moulded and cast and ripping it off. Making substandard copies (they all are, by the method of reproduction, they can be nothing less), passing them off as their own hard work and making money off it. Not for the love of the films, or respect to the original artists, purely money. Again a good example is Usurpers P1, he made that for him and as much as we all would like one, he is not selling it because he didn't do it for money. (yes I still hate you for that Lee :D )

I am sure if you spent a long time making something you were proud of and then saw somebody else passing it off as their own and making money from it, you would understand. The whole issue against the recasters is not one of "hey that was my idea!" more "Hey I worked my ass off for that you pikey!"

I hope you see what I mean, coz I am not having a go, but just trying to help you understand why this is a contentious issue and you may cause some serious ripples by defending recasters...

My two quid... (we don;t have cents in the UK and I rambled on too much for it to be 2p)
 

Xcalibor

Hunter
I fail to see how its hypocritical dude. Fox licenses these pieces that they make and then in turn sell the rights to places like sideshow who then take these molds and make replicas for sale. Now someone takes that replica and recasts it and puts it out as their own, thats a big no-no. Where it would become hypocritical is if someone here had a screen used prop and molded and casted it and claimed it as their own work. Nobody is debating whether or not what we do here is "original". Of course we get the ideas from movies. Do you go and troll on Star Wars forums for people who mass produce clone trooper or storm trooper armour? Because those guys are freakin everywhere. If someone here had this as an original idea, they'd be working for Legacy Effects or ADI or somewhere because they've got imaginative talent. But to say we have our heads up our asses when some of the people here spend hours upon hours and days studying designs and trying to sculpt and replicate it as close as possible, mould it and create it they should be proud of what they've just achieved. And then some asswad comes around and just moulds what they bought and says "hey guys, look at what i just made" takes no talent and no spine. And you need to take YOUR head out of YOUR ass and stop saying were rediculous for getting worked up over it...

Dammit! Now i'm out of troll food.

KPH
 

ptgreek

Elite Hunter
Just want to make something clear....so I understand better. I have been an active participant in this thread. I agreed that you are entitled to your opinion. I was never inflammatory in my direct response to you. Many people treated you the same way while disagreeing and explaining their point of view. ...Now ...are you telling me to pull my head out of my ass? Are you accusing me of spreading B.S? ... I want to be clear on this..because if so...you have seriously pissed me off. Just letting it be know. You have every right to your opinion ...just show some respect to those who express theirs!
 

Usurper

Veteran Hunter
George i think it was aimed more at me ( as he quoted me ),not sure why as i didnt say anything belittling or derogitory. but im making a point of late.

not to argue with idiots, as they will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.
 

wolverinepred

Unblooded
ok guys this is getting heated. i understand the difference between sculpting and recasting. my point is that where do you draw the line between a sculpt of say a P1 helmet which is a blatant copy of someone elses work and a recast of someones sculpt. obviously the likes of the dragon bios i see on here are what i consider to be true originals but people who just do their interpretation of a P1, P2 or wolf bio are still copying. you can disguise the claims about it being an interpretation and you can argue about the fact that recasters just steal someone elses sculpt but the fact still remains that its all copies! if someone wanted a bio of one of these predators shouldnt they buy one form the lisenced sellers(sideshow, rubies) or are they breaking the code of honour that exists by buying from these sculpters??? how many of us have borrowed a cd off of a mate to copy? that essentially is just as wrong as a recast but i bet that wasnt at the front of your mind when you did it. it is making profit from someone elses hard work and i can understand the sculpters getting pissed off with it but you know what . tough . it happens deal with it i am soon going to be in the process of commisioning a full body alien suit which i aim to sell in large quantities(hopefully!!!) it will be an "original" piece but it will still be a copy of someone elses work (Giger, Woodruff etc). now the risk i take with this is that if i sell it i leave myself wide open to someone doing a recast. and do you know what? i dont care! as far as i am concerned it will be an inferior version of my original, and word will soon spread that it is so and people will still buy mine! the issue of potential recasters is not high on my agenda when it comes to buying. the only things i am interested in is quality of work and how close it resembles what i am after. i have bought recasted work in the past and have always regretted it so it sort of self polices itself really.but you cant come on here and moan about people recasting your work and threatening copyright breaches and what not because as i said before its pot kettle black situation. as far as i am concerned yes all you people who have said its immoral, wrong, deceitful whatever I AGREE! but as long as these people are made aware of then they will soon stop doing it. but anyways this is turning into a fantastic thread and that is why i love this site! as for my earlier comment about getting your heads out of your asses that is just a british term for looking beyond the obvious. it wasnt meant as an insult. and no usurper it wasnt aimed at you either! i have a great deal of respect for you i read your threads and comments a lot and find them both informative and useful.
ok guys i hope that clarifys my point of view on the subject and i look forward to your responses!!!!!!
 

Oberon

Hunter
This was my original point, I don't think you do understand the difference between sculpting and recasting. Where you draw the line is that nobody here is recasting the sideshow or, god forbid, the rubies mask. They are making their own from scratch. Yes it is meant to look like the props used in the film, yes it was originally designed by someone else, but it is still made from scratch. It still takes talent and effort to recreate it. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. However reacasters are not putting any effort or talent in, they are making casts of someone elses effort and time and selling it as their own.
People here know that the original predator design is not their's and nobody is pretending any different. Recasters are passing off somebody else's work as their own which is not the case. Making masks to order here for the fans who want to have a predator costume is different, however slightly, to mass producing on ebay purely for profit. It all comes down to trust, and most people on here can be trusted, if they cannot they get put on the recaster list. Which is why threads like this come about, to keep an eye out for the people who are out for an easy pay day rather then recreating something they are passionate about and admire.

It is not a question of who's intellectual property the predator is, that is obvious to all, but more a question of who is making a quick buck from someone else's work and effort, rather than selling something they have gone to the effort of creating themselves. It may be a very small difference to some, but to the people who make this stuff, it is a very important difference.

Someone who sculpts the human body did not invent the subject nor hold any rights over it, but it does not mean what they created is any less worthy as a piece of art.
 

wolverinepred

Unblooded
This was my original point, I don't think you do understand the difference between sculpting and recasting. Where you draw the line is that nobody here is recasting the sideshow or, god forbid, the rubies mask. They are making their own from scratch. Yes it is meant to look like the props used in the film, yes it was originally designed by someone else, but it is still made from scratch. It still takes talent and effort to recreate it. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. However reacasters are not putting any effort or talent in, they are making casts of someone elses effort and time and selling it as their own.
People here know that the original predator design is not their's and nobody is pretending any different. Recasters are passing off somebody else's work as their own which is not the case. Making masks to order here for the fans who want to have a predator costume is different, however slightly, to mass producing on ebay purely for profit. It all comes down to trust, and most people on here can be trusted, if they cannot they get put on the recaster list. Which is why threads like this come about, to keep an eye out for the people who are out for an easy pay day rather then recreating something they are passionate about and admire.

It is not a question of who's intellectual property the predator is, that is obvious to all, but more a question of who is making a quick buck from someone else's work and effort, rather than selling something they have gone to the effort of creating themselves. It may be a very small difference to some, but to the people who make this stuff, it is a very important difference.

Someone who sculpts the human body did not invent the subject nor hold any rights over it, but it does not mean what they created is any less worthy as a piece of art.


ok thanks oberon very eloquently put.
 

Ei luj

Hunter
Wolverinepred, Oberon

Well said, and the crux of the matter is, anybody that is claiming somebody elses' hard work as their own should be put on The List as an alert to the folks here as to what is going on.

A respectful request to the moderators:

The List needs to be updated.

---
Ei'luj
 

Khorn

Unblooded
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Greetings saw yours topic on theme of fakes of Volf mask , question where to take original casting that is yours? What is except mask?
To simply me very much all it is pleasant and to buy fake not so it would be desirable. And what prices at you on it?
 
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Garo

Hunter
To clear up what Khorn just said he wants to buy the original wolf mask but could not get hold of the guy.
 
N

NUCKING FUTS

Guest
LOL some old **** different stories you guys are to much I give up o_O

can I get a hug :D
 
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